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Feedback needed on Comic Sans replacement
Hi all, it's been a few months since our last Comic Sans discussion and I'm ready to take on the issue again.
I have thought of the following strategy to use:
1- find a popular font for OSX, Linux and Windows that looks good for Mockups. This has to be a font that comes with the OS, or no good one is found on that list, it should be a popular one (for instance, those that are installed with Microsoft Office or an Adobe program)
2- once a good font is found on each system, change the current algorithm to use this new font if it's found on the system, falling back on Comic Sans if it's not found. In the Desktop version, the font you specify in the BalsamiqMockups.cfg file will still trump the default font.
For OSX, I am pretty excited about using Chalkboard as a default font replacement.
Here's what Mockups looks like with Chalkboard font:
Would you be terribly offended if I used it from now on? It looks pretty similar to Comic Sans to me, is it too similar? Anyone with strong opinions on this, please CHIME IN!
I also need your help with finding good font replacements for Windows and Linux.
None of the Windows default fonts (both XP and Vista) look good to me, the only "sketch-like" one is Comic Sans. Here's the list of the fonts that come with Office: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/f... - perhaps "Kristen ITC"?
for Linux, I have no idea.
One thing to note is that this change can be done gradually, we could change OSX first and do the rest later.
Help me out!
Peldi
P.S.No, I do not want to offer users a way to choose their font in the UI, it's not needed and most fonts look like crap. You can choose a font face through the config file.
I have thought of the following strategy to use:
1- find a popular font for OSX, Linux and Windows that looks good for Mockups. This has to be a font that comes with the OS, or no good one is found on that list, it should be a popular one (for instance, those that are installed with Microsoft Office or an Adobe program)
2- once a good font is found on each system, change the current algorithm to use this new font if it's found on the system, falling back on Comic Sans if it's not found. In the Desktop version, the font you specify in the BalsamiqMockups.cfg file will still trump the default font.
For OSX, I am pretty excited about using Chalkboard as a default font replacement.
Here's what Mockups looks like with Chalkboard font:
Would you be terribly offended if I used it from now on? It looks pretty similar to Comic Sans to me, is it too similar? Anyone with strong opinions on this, please CHIME IN!
I also need your help with finding good font replacements for Windows and Linux.
None of the Windows default fonts (both XP and Vista) look good to me, the only "sketch-like" one is Comic Sans. Here's the list of the fonts that come with Office: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/f... - perhaps "Kristen ITC"?
for Linux, I have no idea.
One thing to note is that this change can be done gradually, we could change OSX first and do the rest later.
Help me out!
Peldi
P.S.No, I do not want to offer users a way to choose their font in the UI, it's not needed and most fonts look like crap. You can choose a font face through the config file.
I’m optimistic
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Inappropriate?For reference, here's what that same mockup looks like with Comic Sans (click to enlarge):
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This answers the question
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How about Architect? Looks handwritten, but remains clean. Not sure if it's on win/linux. -
Inappropriate?Looks as good to me. It seems more appropriate that Chalkboard is the default font given the focus of the tool.
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?I really can't tell the difference between the two fonts. FWIW, I'm content with Comic Sans and I wouldn't want anything that's more sketchy/hand-drawn. -
Inappropriate?I don't see a great difference between two.
Chalkboard is more polite in terms of gap, acendt, decent.
http://developer.apple.com/documentat...
But Hey! Balsamiq is the only soft where Comic sans look great!
http://bancomicsans.com/home.html
Don't hurt a font!.
BTW Balsamiq doesn't have any issue with the current font.
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Inappropriate?I couldn't tell the difference, which means I support the change as it still looks good!
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?If you are making t-shirts for the atlassian summit, they *MUST* be in Comic Sans font!!!
I’m amused
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Inappropriate?I predict that once you try and change it, many of us will not be able to get used to a new font and beg you to put it back.
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Inappropriate?I support this idea fully!
Side-by-side comparison of the two PNGs above: Chalkboard is better. By far.
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Inappropriate?For a replacement font for Windows, I would like Tempus Sans ITC.
I’m happy comic sans may be replaced.
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Inappropriate?Hi all, OK Chaklboard shipped on OS X today: http://www.balsamiq.com/blog/2009/05/...
I'm still looking for good windows replacements...one that I came across today is Kristen, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristen_(typeface), which looks like this: http://www.paratype.com/fstore/defaul... and is included in Office since Office 2000. I'll try it out and post a picture of how it looks.
I’m happy to move forward on this!
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This answers the question
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See the end of this presentation: http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/05/hist...
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Inappropriate?I use Calibri on Windows through mockups, and it works nicely, very neutral. The issue is, unless the font is embedded, it's going to look shocking whatever it is, that's the downside to the config file. If we could use the config file to point at a fonts swf maybe, that might be better.
But my choice for a replacement font would be Myriad Pro, the font Adobe use in their Creative Suite products, and also in their Flex applications - Buzzword, etc. -
Inappropriate?Peldi wrote: "P.S.No, I do not want to offer users a way to choose their font in the UI, it's not needed and most fonts look like crap. You can choose a font face through the config file."
I think I was in agreement with you on all points until I saw this. On one hand I personally think Comic Sans is a bit over the top. On the other hand, I wrote about this in my blog and got an emphatic response that a mockup needs to make it apparent that it is not the finished product - and the font really helps with that.
In a presentation situation where we don't know the viewer(s) sense of aesthetics, I think it would be valuable, if not prudent, to have an option to quickly get out of Comic Sans and into another font. This should not be the focus of a presentation and we shouldn't need to say "wait a minute", go change the config, then re-open the mockup.
For these reasons I think Comic Sans can remain the default, but I actually think a font changer in the UI would be a good enhancement. Let the viewers decide how crappy different fonts are, and allow us to find something they like quickly. Our task is to get beyond this issue as quickly as possible and get them to buy into what we're really trying to demonstrate.
Sorry. :)
I’m amused that the best solution may be exactly what Peldi doesn't want.
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Inappropriate?I also use Calibri on windows (see http://www.abbett.org/2008/05/27/upda...) and Consolas for form elements. Works very well and is much better than Comic Sans.
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?Chalkboard looks fine to me based on your screenshot above. Clarity is good.
I use OSX, btw. Marker Felt would probably be too dark/bold and isn't as easy to read.
I’m thrilled.
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Inappropriate?Regarding the need for a font that is pre-installed by the OS or popular/common applications - you *could* consider finding a free-to-use "hand drawn" font and install it along with the application or add in (or you could just provide it and recommend that the user install it manually). There are lots of places online that provide this type of font and you can even pay a small fee to create a font based on your own handwriting which you would *know* you could use at will.
You could also modify the config file so that it allows the user to specify a selection of fonts and the system would try to find the first one, move to the second if the first isn't available, etc. so you could put the font you recommend first, but if it isn't installed the application would still be able to find something reasonable.
I’m not too worried as Comic Sans MS may be shunned by many for use in actual documents but is more than sufficient for my wireframing needs.
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Inappropriate?From the link above, 40 free hand-drawn fonts - my preference is Radiohead:
http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/Rab...
If you're going for an "existing" font, already installed at end-user machines, Comic Sans is fine for purpose. Chalkboard is nice, good for Mac people.
If you're looking for a font to use in all (embedded in Balsamiq), I like Radiohead, or something drawn by the Balsamiq crew and created as a font. -
Inappropriate?I dont like Comic very much and there are some good alternatives out there.
Why not provide those as an alterantive default-font?
I see those two alternatives:
a) Comic Jens (CC-Licenced) http://www.fontblog.de/alternative-zu...
b) Scoder Hand (CC-Licenced as well) http://mrluigifreak101.deviantart.com... which is used by the Axure Sketchy Library http://consulting.ascentium.com/blog/...
Regards
Tobias
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Provide an alternative to Comic (Font).
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Inappropriate?Comic Craft has a sale every year on January 1 where all of their fonts are priced at the current year - so, you can get any of their fonts for $20.10.
They have quite a few hand-lettered fonts that may work well with Mockups.
Beware that they have a few fonts that actually cost less than $20.10 - download their PDF catalog to see their non-sale prices.
http://www.comicbookfonts.com/
Update:
It appears that most of their fonts don't come with with a regualar bold face - most come with Regular, Italic, and BoldItalic.
